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2nd AMENDMENT
AMERICA'S FAILSAFE
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WHAT A RELIGION OF PEACE!
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22 comments:
Hey there,
Do you care to elaborate what exactly your organization is trying to do. I am at work and have 5 minutes breaks and unfortunately I can't bring up those links from my normal work computer station.
It seems to me that you'll have to create a whole new religion as all Muslims believe the whole Koran is the direct word of Allah. Also, how do you plan to convince your masses to believe on your "reformed" Koran?
Give me an example of a verse that you've removed. There are countless violent verses in the Koran. You will have to remove a lot of them.
Frankly, your cause does not make any sense. You can't simply mask centuries of bloodshed and try and convince Muslims around the world to believe on a new Koran. Honestly, I don't believe the Koran is the sole driving force behind horrible terror attacks and unjust human rights violations, but rather a tool to use in order to justify and sanctify terrorism which are mainly sponsored and funded by Muslim nations such as Saudi Arabia. Even with a reformed Koran, what assurance can you provide that an Imam will not misinterpret it and still use it for the recruitment of terrorists?
I'm just asking because I can't pull up your links. I'm willing to listen if you explain further and give me examples.
V/r
Muslims Against Sharia - I've checked your first link. Looks like you want to abolish quite a bit of the qur'an there. You'll never have reasonable support from the muslim community. Not only are you asking them to forgo what they believe is the word of allah, but removing parts of the qur'an ignores the Hadith, which is as much inflamatory as the qur'an.
I commend your effort; I wish more muslims were as concerned about Islamic terrorism and religious intolerance. However, given the current nature of Islam - especially in the Middle East - you are fighting an uphill battle. Polls in Europe, US, and Indonesia indicate as many as 40% of young muslims support suicide bombings targeting non-muslims. That's out of those willing to ADMIT they support it. I'd suggest the numbers are closer to 50%. That presents a major problem for peaceful muslims.
I know you are familiar with Robert Spencer at Jihadwatch - I've seen your organization featured there. Ever see his Hot Air video about the UK's "Islam Is Peace" campaign? If not, you can view it here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFuJz0hA5rc
Instead of trying to rewrite the qur'an, which is certain to be a failure among pious muslims, why not embark on Mr. Spencer's 5 point plan?
Stop wasting energy trying to change the image of Islam. Start fighting with infidels against ISLAMIC terrorists.
SIREN,
"Do you care to elaborate what exactly your organization is trying to do."
We are trying to reform Islam by removing the doctrine of Islamic supremacy.
"It seems to me that you'll have to create a whole new religion"
Reform Christians are still Christians, reform Jews are still Jews.
"Muslims believe the whole Koran is the direct word of Allah"
Simple logic contradicts that belief.
"Give me an example of a verse that you've removed."
2.191: And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.
"There are countless violent verses in the Koran."
Really? When was the last time you read the Koran?
"Frankly, your cause does not make any sense."
Maybe you are just not smart enough to understand it.
"You can't simply mask centuries of bloodshed"
Accepting responsibilities is hardly constitutes "masking."
"Honestly, I don't believe the Koran is the sole driving force behind horrible terror attacks and unjust human rights violations"
You belief is based on lack of information.
"Even with a reformed Koran, what assurance can you provide that an Imam will not misinterpret it and still use it for the recruitment of terrorists?"
There will be no verses that allow room for misinterpretation.
DMartyr,
"You'll never have reasonable support from the muslim community."
Our polls show otherwise. And we haven't met too many moderate Muslims who, after listening to our arguments, do not agree with us.
"Not only are you asking them to forgo what they believe is the word of allah"
We are asking to apply logic when looking at the Koran. The Koran contains contradictory verses, and since God is infallible, he cannot contradict himself.
"but removing parts of the qur'an ignores the Hadith, which is as much inflamatory as the qur'an."
We do not ignore the Hadith; we are working one step at a time.
"you are fighting an uphill battle"
You think?
"Polls in Europe, US, and Indonesia indicate as many as 40% of young muslims support suicide bombings targeting non-muslims. That's out of those willing to ADMIT they support it. I'd suggest the numbers are closer to 50%."
We are aware that many Muslims, probably a majority are Islamists, but it is not good enough reason for us to do nothing.
"why not embark on Mr. Spencer's 5 point plan?"
Because we think that our approach is more effective.
You think changing the qur'an is a more effective approach than simply acknowledging Islamic terrorism and publicly opposing extremists? You think dropping accepted verses from Islam's holy book is more effective than closing radical mosques? You think making a feel-good, politically (in)correct version of the qur'an is more effective than assisting authorities attempting to stop Islamic terrorism?
Well, good luck on that. I sincerely hope you are right.
But honestly, though I like Muslims Against the Sharia's mission and ambition, when I read your comments above I'm hearing more of the same "Islam is peace" BS we've been hearing constantly after more than 10,200 deadly Islamic terrorist attacks since 9/11. Islam's profiteer Mo killed hundreds - thousands - to sate his greed and lust. He raped women minutes after forcing them to witness the brutal deaths of their husbands and sons. He beheaded young boys. He raped at least one little girl and set a precedent that would condemn young girls, to this day, to be raped by old muslim men. He enslaved or slaughtered those who didn't believe his claim he was a prophet. He killed innocent people who were just associated with those he didn't like.
A kinder, gentler qur'an willl never change that.
If you believe in Muhammed, then you are trying to change allah's own words. If you think the qur'an is wrong in some areas, then you are trying to adjust allah's morals to suit modern times. Either way, Islam is incompatible with civilization & humanity and cannot be reformed.
Just my kafir opinion. ;)
"You think changing the qur'an is a more effective approach than simply acknowledging Islamic terrorism and publicly opposing extremists?"
What makes you think that these two methods are mutually exclusive? We DO acknowledge Islamic terrorism, read out manifesto, www.reformislam.org.
"You think dropping accepted verses from Islam's holy book is more effective than closing radical mosques?"
Again, this is not mutually exclusive. If it were up to us, we would close 80%+ of American mosques tomorrow. We have repeatedly stated that most of the American Muslim establishment is nothing, but a collection of terrorist fronts.
"If you think the qur'an is wrong in some areas, then you are trying to adjust allah's morals to suit modern times."
We believe that the Koran has been corrupted over the centuries, because some parts of it contradict others, and the doctrine of abrogation contradicts the doctrine of God's infallibility.
I have to agree that denouncing terrorism, extremist regimes, the ideology, and helping the authorities would be alot more effective.
We never see the "Good Muslims" marching in the streets across America, I know there have been one or two here and there like in Texas a month or so ago.
But, you rarely hear the public denunciation that the non-muslim American public has wanted to hear. All we hear is platitudes, excuses and spin.
The best way you can help us and western civilization is helping us shut down every mosque led by a preacher of hate, not allowing muslim communities to declare themselves "police free" zones, and publicly denounce sharia law at the top of your lungs, early and often.
Make everyone hear you loudly.
"you rarely hear the public denunciation that the non-muslim American public has wanted to hear."
The problem is that most of the media is using America Muslim establishment (that is mostly radical) to provide "Muslim opinion", and moderate Muslims are ignored by default. It's not that we do not speak up, it's just that we do not have forums to be heard.
"The best way you can help us and western civilization is helping us shut down every mosque led by a preacher of hate, not allowing muslim communities to declare themselves "police free" zones, and publicly denounce sharia law at the top of your lungs, early and often."
We are in complete agreement with aforementioned proposals, but we have no power to enforce them.
"but ask yourself, who funds these terror?"
My answer, and it is not meant as an insult, YOU DO. Modern Islamic terrorism is mostly funded by oil revenues. Every time you fill up your vehicle with Middle Eastern oil, part of your money goes to fund terrorism. America is the world’s largest oil consumer and over 20% of oil used in the US comes from the Middle East. Visit www.bankruptterror.org if you want to stop basing your beliefs on ignorance.
"This just tells me that you are merely hiding behind the Muslims Against Sharia Organization, but if you were given the chance to blow yourself up, you wouldn’t hesitate one second."
I don’t mean to insult you, but you must be a total idiot to believe in that.
"I recommend you first reform yourself."
As usual, you are making a statement based on ignorance.
"And let me tell you that if you don’t believe that rogue nations are not behind terrorist attacks and that the Qu’ran is also used to justify terror, you are as gullible as can be."
Now, you are making things up, attributing them to us, and then making conclusions based on your own bullshit. Seriously, how dumb are you?
"I wouldn’t be surprised at all if a Muslim suicide bomber attacks “Muslims Against Sharia” headquarters."
Again, you must be a total idiot to believe that. However, if you truly do, it is your civil duty to report this to the FBI. After you do that, please let us know how long did it take them to stop laughing.
"Finally, I am at the point where reform or not reform you are all the same brainwashed killers."
Do I sense pathological projection?
"I am fed-up with all of your Islam nonsense"
That shows nothing except your bigotry.
"In reference to the western media only showing the terror and not being fair to Muslims, I say actions prove more than words."
Again, only an idiot would accuse us of something that we never said. Do you have problems with reading comprehension or is it just voices in your head?
"Al-Jazeera is broadcasted and they never show the bad actions committed by Muslims."
Al-Jazeera is a terrorist mouthpiece. Expecting Al-Jazeera to provide fair coverage is pretty dumb.
"Have you tried Blog Talk Radio and the vast internet tools to broadcast your message?"
Yes. And the listeners were very happy. All three of them.
"In reference to shutting down mosques led by a preacher of hate, I suggest you ask Saudi Arabia before the Western nations."
This must be the most idiotic statement so far. You are suggesting asking Islamofascists to shut down terrorist propaganda outlet rather than the country that fights the war on terror to do that. And the title of this post is "Saudi Arabia Lectures the West on Human Rights....lol," which leads the reader to believe that you understand what Saudi Arabia is. Seriously, what are you, three?
"So, if I lack information (as you put it) regarding the Qu’ran not being the sole force behind terrorism, then please what should we do about all the assets that come from Saudi Arabia to fund those mosques particularly in Canada, NY, and now Latin America too?"
First, let me apologize for "lack of information" and replace it with "utter ignorance". Second, in my opinion, anyone who distributes Islamic supremacy materials should be either deported or arrested for sedition.
"Where were you when they killed Du’a Khalil? Why don’t you yell in outrage to save Reza from hanging?"
Just because you did not hear it, does not mean it did not happen. I already addressed this issue when I said that we do not have the forum to speak.
"The NY Times will publish anything for the record."
You ARE stupid. NYT will not publish anything that does not fit their agenda, and they would definitely not publish anything coming out of Muslims Against Sharia, because we are not PC-enough for them.
"The problem is that your reaction only proves that deep down inside you do not believe in your cause"
Which reaction would that be?
"The only people who yell in outrage are the infidels!!! Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Wafa Sultan, etc. NOT YOU!"
If you weren’t that ignorant, you would know that Hirsi Ali is an ex-Muslim and Dr. Sultan is a Muslim, therefore neither one qualifies as an infidel.
"So you are going to reform the Qu’ran, but you will not get the Islamic community to accept it."
This is your opinion (which is safe to say based on ignorance), and we do not agree with it.
Your problem is that you base your conclusion on your assumptions, which are not always correct. You will be called an idiot for as long as you do that. If you don’t want to be called an idiot, start basing your conclusions on facts.
M. A. S
Let me repeat again that I initially asked you for information about your cause and you responded with insults towards me. And you continue to do so.
All I am going to tell you is that you are 100% wrong with your attitude.
Also, Ayaan Hirsi Ali has publicly declared herself an infidel on numerous occasions. In fact, one of her bestseller books is called “Infidel” and another recently released is also called “The Infidel: The story of my Enlightenment.”
Wafa Sultan also publicly declared herself to be an infidel so many times I can’t even count. Here are some of her famous quotes and some of my favorites let me add.
"A battle between modernity and barbarism which Islam will lose”
"The trouble with Islam is deeply rooted in its teachings. Islam is not only a religion. Islam (is) also a political ideology that preaches violence and applies its agenda by force.”
In terms of you not being able to get people to listen to you, well let me tell you that I just started this blogging thing 6 days ago and I added a visitor meter 4 days ago. So far I got over 5450+ visitors and I only have very few postings. It took me 30 seconds to sign-up with blogger, it took me 2 minutes to pick the template. It didn’t take me long to decorate it either as blogger explains how to do it. In addition, I just added my blog postings to come up on general google searches based on the keywords I put in for each and one of my postings. It took me a minute to set it up. I also added the blogrush tool which promotes my blog postings as well. It was all free too!
Oh, I have a friend from FL who started an internet radio 3 months ago and has now over 60,000 listeners if not more. He does not really say anything, but his attitude is great and that’s why people listen to him. His set-up was free as well and now he even gets paid for ads, etc.
Finally, I wish you the best with your exceptional efforts to promote your cause and for the record I could have been the fourth one to listen to you if you had not insulted me in the first place.
Very respectfully,
Your beloved infidel :)
"Let me repeat again that I initially asked you for information about your cause"
Can you be more specific?
"Also, Ayaan Hirsi Ali has publicly declared herself an infidel on numerous occasions. In fact, one of her bestseller books is called “Infidel” and another recently released is also called “The Infidel: The story of my Enlightenment.”
I can call myself a Martian ten times a day, but it would not make me a Martian. Do you know the difference between infidel and apostate or do I need to explain it?
"Wafa Sultan also publicly declared herself to be an infidel so many times I can’t even count."
Would you care to provide a single quote? The quotes that you gave do not reflect on the subject of her being an infidel. Many radicals call me an infidel, but it doesn’t make it so.
"So far I got over 5450+ visitors and I only have very few postings."
You are either full of shit, or you do not understand the difference between a "visitor" and a "hit". According to Marketleap, the rating for thesirenvoice.blogspot.com is ZERO, while the rating for muslimsagainstsharia.blogspot.com is over 20,000, and we are not getting anything close to 1,000 visitors per day. In case, you do not understand the concept, internet rating correlates to number of visitors.
"it took me 2 minutes to pick the template. It didn’t take me long to decorate it either as blogger explains how to do it."
Yeah, I noticed. Not that there is anything wrong with it.
"I have a friend from FL who started an internet radio 3 months ago and has now over 60,000 listeners if not more."
Sound like another BS. Where do you come up with those numbers?
"Finally, I wish you the best with your exceptional efforts to promote your cause and for the record I could have been the fourth one to listen to you if you had not insulted me in the first place."
I appreciate this very much and I have no intention insulting you. It maybe a shortcoming, but I prefer to call things what they are. If there is a problem with my faith, I say it. If someone has no idea what he/she is talking about, I say it too.
For the record, we are properly set up with search engines, we are published on premier sites, i.e., FrontPage Magazine, which rating is over 1,000,000, we’ve been interviewed on real radio (broadcast) as well as on Internet radio. The fact that you never heard of us or other moderate Muslims proves that our message is being heard by a minuscule share of the media market. Radical Muslim organizations receive millions of dollars from the Middle East and they have PR professionals. We have to work for a living and get shit from both sides. Radicals want to kill us for being bad Muslims and non-Muslims believe that there is no difference between the radicals and us. And on top of everything, idiots in the government including the White House, the Pentagon, the DOJ use radicals who claim to be moderates and shun moderates.
Whoever you morons are (Muslims Against Sharia BS Organization)
Don’t you dare attack my friend!
I’ll tell u why she’s fed-up with your bull shit. Not only her aunt was severely wounded in one of your thousands of bombings throughout the world, but got almost killed herself in that same bombing.
So nicely you operate that you decided to bomb an Embassy situated right next to a pre-school killing most of the children. You even waited until 10 AM so the kids would be in recess out in the open without the protection of any shelter. She is fed up because she has witnessed her friend’s 3 year old die screaming in pain.
And don’t you even try and distinct yourselves from the same terrorists murderers we not see on TV, but rather experience on a daily basis worldwide.
You insult my friend one more time, and your miniscule/useless and dirty organization disappears.
Like my friend stated, you are not only rude, which it doesn’t help your ineffective and hopeless cause, but you are also lacking computer skills, obviously.
Shalom
PS: Hey sweetie, do you mind if I forward their insults to my tribe?
corridor,
Should you be taking your cousin dad's dick out of your mouth before talking to people? You are just as stupid as someone who claims that since Soros collaborated with the Nazis, all Jews collaborated with the Nazis.
Let me explain to you what the difference is between an infidel and apostate in Syria and Somalia, where Wafa and Ayaan are from. The difference is that they will both be stonned to death.
Quoting you MAS
"It's not that we do not speak up, it's just that we do not have forums to be heard."
Me asking - Have you tried Blog Talk Radio and the vast internet tools to broadcast your message?
"Yes. And the listeners were very happy. All three of them."
And now you are telling me this:
"For the record, we are properly set up with search engines, we are published on premier sites, i.e., FrontPage Magazine, which rating is over 1,000,000, we’ve been interviewed on real radio (broadcast) as well as on Internet radio."
Which one is the truth?
Also, if my blog is "zero" compared to yours in terms of hits, then why do you even bother in commenting on it?
You only contradict yourselves.
PS: I just started my blog 5 days ago. Also, have I called you ignorant? Have I asked if you were three years old? NOPE. So, who is more decent here? You can tell what you think without insults, you know. And your attitudes, because it is obviously not just one person responding, makes me not ever want to find out about your organization. Thanks for the fight and the insults. I would think that Muslims Against Sharia would be more a little more peaceful. Good night.
M.A.S.: "My answer, and it is not meant as an insult, YOU DO. Modern Islamic terrorism is mostly funded by oil revenues"
Let me ask you, as a muslim, do you generally vote democratic or republican?
BTW, you never addressed my points on Muhammed. Is your organization planning on changing the qur'an and hadith so your prophet comes out squeaky clean with blood-free hands? Make him a better example for muslim men to follow?
I've been thinking on this. Maybe we could use M.A.S.'s idea and just re-write history. While you're at it, lets erase the Crusades. Christians shouldn't have to walk around with that guilt. The Inquisition? Never happened. Maybe we could make Hitler a good guy so Germans will feel better about themselves? We could change the fact the holocaust even happened. Just erase it. In a few generations it'll be forgotten. We can take the bad stuff the KKK has ever done, make them peaceful & friendly. Why, using your (M.A.S., not you personally) method, we can alter every bad thing that has ever happened to any race or culture, by any race or culture, and, suddenly, the world will be a happy place for all.
I think you see where I'm going with this. You want to remove the bad elements from Islam - things you claim were 'corrupted' over time. But what makes M.A.S. an authority of what is accuracy and what is corruption in the qur'an? How will you reconcile the evil committed by Muhammed with your vision of a peaceful Islam?
Really, M.A.S., I'm happy to see a muslim doing *something* to oppose Islamic terrorism, but I think re-writing the qur'an is a work of futility.
MAS
A friend of mine told me to send you this. He is originally from Iran and is now a Christian.
“Allah” A False God!
The New Testament tells how the Christians have to regard Islam. The apostle John wrote in his first letter, "Every spirit which does not acknowledge that Jesus has come in the flesh... is the spirit of the antichrist..." (1 John 2:18-23; 4:1-6).
"We must therefore confess with all humility that the spirit in Islam is the spirit of the antichrist. Muhammad had heard much about Jesus, but, in spite of all, he denied the crucified Son of God."
Before the advent of Islam, the Arabs were idol worshipers. One of the historians by the name of Vaqqidi said that the Arabs had 360 Gods for each day of the year and the largest and the main God was called “Allah.” They were pagan, a polytheistic culture.
Interestingly enough, not many Muslims want to accept that Allah was already being worshipped at the Ka’ba in Mecca by Arab pagans before Muhammad came along. So that’s where Allah comes into the picture. Eventually this idol becomes Islam’s God. When the Muslims say: Allah-o-Akbar or God is great, in reality they refer to this large statue which was worshiped by the Bedouins in the Arabian Peninsula. Islam is paganism cult wrapped in monotheistic dogma.
"The Religion in the sight of Allah is Islam." (Qur'an 3:19)
Christians have come to believe that the Wisdom of the Lord is greater than the Muslim Sword commonly used to conquer and force its victims to obey the Allah’s manifestation: the Quran.
Islam is a grand delusion, birthed by Muhammad’s hallucination that he relayed to his first wife and employer, Khadija. Greatly frightened, he told Khadija that he was visited by jinn (devil) in the Hira cave. Khadija comforted the distraught man by assuring him that the episode was Allah’s way of choosing him as his messenger. Muhammad believed his rich wife-employer who was 15 years his senior and the delusion became a belief—Islam.
Islam is rooted in the primitive tribal mentality of “We against Them,” “We the righteous against the heathens,” “We the servants submissive of the Great Allah against the rebellious enemies of Allah.” Islam is a polarizer. Islam is an enemy-maker. To Islam, a non-Muslim is a combatant against Allah and he is fair game to be subjugated and killed.
Through a highly effective indoctrination, the jihadists have come to believe firmly in Islam’s grand delusion. They believe that Allah is the one and only supreme creator of earth and heavens; that it is their duty and privilege to abide by Allah’s will and carry out his plans at all costs; they believe firmly in a gloriously wonderful immortal afterlife in paradise, for which a martyr’s death is the surest quickest admission. Although the dominating theme of the delusion is quasi spiritual, the promised rewards of the afterlife awaiting the martyr are sensual and material. All the things and activities that the jihadists desire and cannot attain or practice, and reject in their earthly life will be purified and proffered to them in the paradise of the next life.
Islam is basically an instruction manual on manipulating human behavior (behavior modification of the sort a la Skinner) to manufacture consent a la Chomsky (Chomsky is 1400 years behind manufacturing consent methods used by the mullahs to convince human being against his or her own pre-wired and genetic programming of survival instincts to become martyrs and recruit suicide brigades in one or two sessions of religious Sermon…Talk about manufacturing consent) among the masses and to render their brain and reasoning ability irrelevant and disabled so they can be used as unthinking and unquestioning tools of blind subjugation of fear to fill their mosques and to prefer death over life.
Iran and all other "Arab" states - including Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Tunisia, and Algeria, as well as the entity under the Palestinian Authority - were originally non-Arab nations that were conquered by the Muslim Arabs when they spread out from the Arabian peninsula in the first great wave of jihad in the 7th century, defeating, killing, Iran enslaving, dispossessing, converting, or reducing to the lowly status of dhimmitude millions of Christians and Jews, Zoroastrian exodus to India, and destroying their language (Phoenicians in Lebanon didn't speak Arabic, Iran is the only country that was able to sustain its own language, thanks to our brave poet, Ferdowsi) ancient and flourishing civilizations.
Prior to being Christian, of course, these lands had even more ancient histories. Pharaonic Egypt, for example, was not an Arab country through its 3,000-year history."
A Christian who thinks that his/her religion is the only true religion? That’s something you don’t hear every day.
LOL
Is that the best you could come up with?
However, unlike Muslims, a Christian does not think he/she must kill everybody who is not one...
Your idiotic projections again. You must be too fucking stupid to realize that you keep accusing us of wanting to kill you, while we never gave you a reason to do that; you’re saying that your religion is better than ours, while we never said that ours better than yours. And then you act all surprised and insulted when you are called a fucking moron. Dumbasses like you give credibility to crazy Rosie when she claims that radical Christianity is just as dangerous as radical Islam.
Wrong again. I am not a Christian. I'll let you guess which are my religious beliefs.
In the meantime while you think, I invite you to comment on who is our hottest infidel crusader babe posting. I dare you.
"I am not a Christian."
Are you an unperfected Christian?
"I invite you to comment on who is our hottest infidel crusader babe posting."
What are my choices?
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